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phoenixavenged says, hunter u r atheist
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Of course....
phoenixavenged says, i belive in god
phoenixavenged says, wanna joust
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Good for you. I see no need for beliefs.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Maybe. Depends on how you wanna do it....
phoenixavenged says, yeah me too
phoenixavenged says, well phisically is out
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, I mean, we *could* banter in here, or you *could* choose whatever point you wish to make, and go prove it on the board. That'd give you time to think it out, and the ability to cite all your evidence properly.
phoenixavenged says, or we could pm
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I'm sorry; I don't do PM.
phoenixavenged says, rooms crazy
phoenixavenged says, but ok
phoenixavenged says, ok hunter
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Well, what did you want to argue, exactly? I'd still prefer to do this on the board....
phoenixavenged says, ok.. u tell me u do not belive in gog what evidence do u have?
beckett1779 says, evidence for what, pho?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I have not stated anything regarding the nonexistance of a deity. I have not made the assertion -- I'm not required to provide evidence. Nor can I disprove that which has not been proven.
phoenixavenged says, hunter do not assume that when i say god i mean a diety
phoenixavenged says, concentrate
beckett1779 says, Deity?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, Eh-
Hunter_the_CrazyChick stalls.
phoenixavenged says, sane we r
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Go look up 'deity' and get back to me....
phoenixavenged says, hunter that is empty rethoric it bores me now
beckett1779 says, pho, nice try, but you're messing with the major leagues if you're going to try insulting Hunter.
beckett1779 says, *refilling my mug to watch the slaughter, with a fresh $100 bill on Hunter*
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Excuse me? Requesting that you look up a definition to a word is 'empty rhetoric'?
phoenixavenged says, bec i am not insulting her if anything she tried to undermine me
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: False accusation.
beckett1779 says, pho, give up.
beckett1779 says, pho, i've seen too many like you get gelded by Hunter
phoenixavenged says, i not yet begun to fight
beckett1779 says, quit while you still have your own testicles, pal.
phoenixavenged says, bec u dont know me wait & see
beckett1779 says, pho, out of kindness, I'm informing you that you are in no way equipped to do battle with Hunter.
phoenixavenged says, wow u r scaring me
beckett1779 says, Okay pho, have at it. This will be fun.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, deity 1. god or goddess.
beckett1779 says, go get 'er, pho. I haven't seen a good Hunter bloodletting in 90 minutes.
phoenixavenged says, hunter what makes u think that infantile imaginings of human thought has any resemblance to the reality of god?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, god: 1. superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature, human fortunes, et cetera. b. image, idol, et cetera.
phoenixavenged says, oh hunter this has nothing to do with that scroll back to see what i have written
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: since you've stated 'the reality of god' -- prove that a deity exists in reality.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, You wrote:
phoenixavenged says, hunter what makes u think that infantile imaginings of human thought has any resemblance to the reality of god?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, I responded: phoenixavenged: since you've stated 'the reality of god' -- prove that a deity exists in reality.
dumkopf_51103 says, wow, hunter is quite vicious when purturbed
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: If you're going to attempt to play these little games, you might want to try it with someone a little less...observant.
phoenixavenged says, u want proof.. but u will never get it if u persist only in "defeating" me insetad of a constructive disscussion... your mind will not even consider the possiblity
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says,
dumkopf_51103: I'm not 'purturbed' yet....
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Pardon me, but would you demonstrate the relevance of that statement to reality?
phoenixavenged says, every scientifict fact starts with a assumption o
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, I don't particularly seem to be intentionally persisting in 'defeating' you -- that you may be seen as losing is not under my control. I'm attepting to debate with you, but you seem to not be interested in doing so properly.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says,
dumkopf_51103: I don't know; I don't follow sports.
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, yup, starts with an assumption. Unlike religion, however, science is about TESTING those assumptions, and the conclusions we draw from them.
LadyLisa99 says, And testing again, and again...
phoenixavenged says, hunter u have to see a fact or a truth from all sides
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Theories start with hypotheses based upon observations. I observe A, therefore A must be so because of whatever. The hypothesis is then tested. Not 'a must be so because I say it is'. That's a baseless assumption, and it has nothing to do with science, or debate....
phoenixavenged says, oh i will do go on
phoenixavenged says, what is ur hypothesis of god?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Have I observed a deity yet? No. Therefore, I cannot hypothesise anything regarding one.
phoenixavenged says, if u r willing to form one
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I cannot form anything without evidence first.
phoenixavenged says, even forr the sake of scientific inquiry
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: FOR THE SAKE OF SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY there must be EVIDENCE even before forming a HYPOTHESIS. HYPOTHESES are based upon observation....
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, Notice the emphasised words.
phoenixavenged says, hunter do u know that even cultures in isolation have a concept of god?
beckett1779 says, phoenix, yes, they do, and studies on the human brain are narrowing in on the 'why'
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Are you aware that that doesn't matter?
phoenixavenged says, lol
phoenixavenged says, ok hunter u did get me there
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Appealing to popularity isn't going to win you this one. Just because, according to you, 'everyone beleives in a deity', doesn't make it so. And, even in that case, which one? And why don't asian philosophies all have deities?.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says,
LadyLisa99: I tried to get her to take it elsewheres, but she wouldn't have it.
phoenixavenged says, ok what i am saying is the conception of a diety is not what u think
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: And what, precisely, does your version of me think that a deity is?
phoenixavenged says, u tell me i'm not u
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: '
phoenixavenged says, ok what i am saying is the conception of a diety is not what u think' -- in this statement, you claim to have knowledge of what I think a deity is.
phoenixavenged says, one of the theories is that the belief in a diety in nessesary for human health
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, Now, please, enlighten me. What do I think a deity -- or, as you put it 'diety' -- is?
phoenixavenged says, mental & phisical
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Please, provide evidence of the existance of this theory. Who's studying it, who proposed it? Where is this person's work published? References, please....
phoenixavenged says, hunter the evidence is you
beckett1779 says, ah, pho is now going in circles.
phoenixavenged says, look into ur own heart
beckett1779 says, pho, this is not a religion room where you can sell that leaking oil used car
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: While that's largely impossible, if I were to look within my heart, I would see a biological pump made of cardiac muscle, and within it, blood.
phoenixavenged says, becket bear with me will ya
beckett1779 says, pho, you were to discuss a deity, and start that same LDS crap about the 'heart'
beckett1779 says, that's obsolete.
phoenixavenged says, hunter u know what i am talking about dont u?
beckett1779 says, the heart is a blood pump, nothing more.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: You're trying to sell me 'faith' when I'm asking you for references on this 'theory' that you've stated.
phoenixavenged says, it was a manner of speaking
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Is it an actual theory, or were you just trying to make something up?
phoenixavenged says, hunter the proof of ur belief is ur strong opposition to it
phoenixavenged says, it effects u deeply
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: And when you're done beating your version of me to death with that false statement, would you care to refer to this: I hold no beliefs.
phoenixavenged says, not even in the belief of the non existence of a diety or science as evidenced by ur eyes & ur mind as to ur capacity of understanding?
beckett1779 says, Damn, Hunter. He's so inept he has no idea of how ridiculous and self parodying he's become.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I lack beliefs. Try to wrap your mind around it. I do not 'believe in the nonexistance of a deity'. That would be a belief -- a theistic one at that. Nor do I 'believe' in what I see. There is evidence that what I see is there; I accept it. Belief requires 'faith'. Evidence leads to acceptance.
phoenixavenged says, evidence is based upon ur perception after all hunter... & the paradox is that the senses & even the mind has been proved wrong many times by the evidence itself.. do you get what i am saying.. the entire truth is never before ur eyes or understood by ur mind.. it is people who dont know much that think theay know everything u will notice
beckett1779 says, pho sounds like a Wal Mart version of Khalil Gibran, without the good intentions or older lovers in NYC
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I never stated that evidence for me was evidence for anything. Reality is, after all, only according to ones perspective. The voices in your head are real to you, but not to me. I'm well aware of the existance of 'hallucinations', however, someone who is aware of this knows when these things are happening, and while they may 'seem' real, one knows they are not....
phoenixavenged says, ur dependence on "evidence" indicates u r faith in ur senses that even u know & indeed the evdence itself proves r inadequate to understand it
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I do not claim to know 'everything'. I know far less than I would like to; I haven't stopped learning. And, thus far, in everything I've learned, observed, or otherwise encountered, none of that has been actual evidence for a deity.
phoenixavenged says, have u ever had hallucinations hunter or been insane?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Incorrect; I have no 'faith', certainly not in my 'senses'. As you said -- senses can be wrong; and please note that I agreed with that point. Try not to cripple your own argument by forgetting what was JUST said.
dumkopf_51103 says, LMFAO!
beckett1779 says, haaaaa Hunter!
beckett1779 says, *falls over laughing*
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I've had sleep dep. hallucinations before, yes. And I was aware that they were hallucinations at the time. Hence my lack of faith in my senses. Please try to keep track of that point....
phoenixavenged says, so there is the possiblity thatlater u may encounter "so called evidence of his existence or of a concept that is similar?
beckett1779 says, poor phoenix is bleeding down the front of his wise man's tunic.
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, yes... Someday we may discover evidence for God. Just as we discovered evidence that we evolved.
phoenixavenged says, becket do u want to cyber with her?
LadyLisa99 says, But for now, nobody has been able to prove God.
LadyLisa99 says, That's why it's faith.
phoenixavenged says, stop fighting her fight
beckett1779 says, phoenix, no, I don't. I don't cyber with anyone. I'm not a repressed Islamic male who thinks all Western chicks are like those in the porn flicks.
beckett1779 says, How about you?
beckett1779 says, phoenix, I'm a bystander.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: There's the possibility, yes, but until that evidence is encountered, I don't concern myself with it. It's not proven to be real. The only thing backing the existance of this thing up is a book, which I've read, that isn't very good. And if that book is all it takes, then there's lots of things that are real, aren't there....
beckett1779 says, and you are too unintelligent to realize you've been sliced to pieces, phoenix.
phoenixavenged says, ok so easy with the comments please
beckett1779 says, as long as I watch you destroying my language, I'm going to comment.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: And I'm nearing the end of my patience in dealing with your attempted personal attacks. Clean it up, or stop pretending to debate.
beckett1779 says, and yes, the personal attacks, weak attempts at debate, are no longer funny, phoenix.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: You chose to do it in here, instead of on the board. This is an open, realtime forum; he's permitted to comment on anything he sees.
beckett1779 says, You are not a very bright boy, and we all know it by your actions.
phoenixavenged says, hunter i am not attacking u try to understand only breaking down ur shell
phoenixavenged says, ur illusions
beckett1779 says, you stated you had a "theory" and then ran like GW Bush when asked for evidence of this "theory"
beckett1779 says, phoenix, the word is 'your'.
beckett1779 says, and Hunter's illusions, if any, have never been demonstrated in chat.
phoenixavenged says, i am not so rigid upon the existence of god as u r upon his non existence... that it self is flawed the reality is no one really knows
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: You presume illusions, and you presume this 'shell'; you presume a lot.
LadyLisa99 says, LOL@phoenix talking about Hunter's "shell" of illusions... That's good...
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Have I once stated definitely that "God does not exist"?
phoenixavenged says, no u havent
beckett1779 says, phoenix, you have now descended to the level of a guest on Oprah peddling new age crap about "shell" and "illusions". Hope you sell a lot of bogus books, like Dr Weill and Sylvia Browne do.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Then why are you saying that I have?
phoenixavenged says, because u r argueing about it
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Why are you implying that I hold this belief that a deity does not exist, even after I've stated multiple times that I hold no beleifs?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: You're the one who wanted to argue; you made the first move. You asked 'r u atheist'; I responded yes. You said you believed in a deity, and asked if I wanted to joust.
phoenixavenged says, so all u say is that u have not yet seen evidence of god thence will not admit to the possiblity that he exists?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Why should I? Should I also admit the possibility that the Weekly World News prints factual articles?
beckett1779 says, ha.. how about Asimov stating "I don't have time to worry about if a god exists" instead? That would sum up a lot of people I know.
phoenixavenged says, i did not say i belived in a diety i said i belive in a concept of god
beckett1779 says, god=deity. Definitions are interchangeable.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, "
phoenixavenged says, i belive in god"
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, And, as I've demonstrated, god is synonymous with 'deity'.
phoenixavenged says, how have u demonstrated hunter? Hunter_the_CrazyChick sighs.
beckett1779 says, okay, with that question, phoenix, YOU have demonstrated such a low level of cognitive skills, I feel like I should inform your parents you're on their computer bothering the adults.
reinnresauq says, Beckett, that was low
reinnresauq says, good one
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, "
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, deity 1. god or goddess. "
phoenixavenged says, waiting
beckett1779 says, He's trying to go in circles, reinn
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says,
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, god: 1. superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature, human fortunes, et cetera. b. image, idol, et cetera.
reinnresauq says, the bad thing is that his profile says he's 35
reinnresauq says, both
beckett1779 says, typical fundie approach, thought I suspect phoen is middle eastern or south asian.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, Both definitions taken from the Oxford English Dictionary.
reinnresauq says, Middle eastern, actually
reinnresauq says, Oman
phoenixavenged says, u mean u belive in the dictionary meaning & interpretation of god?
beckett1779 says, ah, I was right.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, Both stated at the beginning of this conversation, when you stated that, just because you said 'god', I should not assume you meanat 'deity'.
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, is there another?
beckett1779 says, phoenix, you just aren't bright enough to hang in here.
beckett1779 says, sorry.
LadyLisa99 says, Is there some reason the definition in the dictionary is in error?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: No, I *accept* the fact that dictionaries list the proper usage definitions of terms -- common or technical.
LadyLisa99 says, Show how...
reinnresauq says, Phoenix, are you a moron in a cage?
LadyLisa99 chuckles.
beckett1779 says, reinn, he's a moron with a typewriter.
phoenixavenged says, so u assumed that that was what i meant when i said god?
beckett1779 says, he's just not smart enough to know he's not smart.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: If you mean something other than the proper definition of a given word, then you should either A. specify what you mean. B. Use the proper term for what you mean.
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, that's what most English speakers will assume when they hear the word. If you have your own private definitions that differ, that's your problem.
LadyLisa99 says, And your own dishonesty for not explaining how your definition differs from the one you know we'll "assume" you mean.
phoenixavenged says, human thought as to the nature of real;ity has evolved so the idea or the concept of god must evolve with it as our understanding grows so dose our interpretation
beckett1779 says, not an absolute, phoenix.
LadyLisa99 says, Yup, dictionaries change and add definitions as the language evolves.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Why is this deital concept required; you never clarified that from earlier. In fact, you dodged the request for references entirely.
phoenixavenged says, lady i did not get a chance to explain nor was i asked
beckett1779 says, you WERE asked, repeatedly. Now you are willfully lying and saying you weren't.
beckett1779 says, so, please answer now that you do know you have been asked.
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, and its still up to you to VOLUNTEER that info when your definition varies from the one accepted by everyone else.
beckett1779 says, Lisa, since he thinks he's being so mistreated, I'm going to sit off to the side and wait for his studied, reasoned reply.
phoenixavenged says, but it was nessesary 1 thing i find hard to understand is why everyone in the room thinks that this is a personal attack on them & have started to abuse me.. i find that... amusing
beckett1779 says, still dodging?
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, sure you do... *smirk*
reinnresauq says, Phoenix, we can be nice if you can be smarter
phoenixavenged says, it again makes me feel that this subject is very close to everyones heart , ur ego depends on it ur conception of reality is in danger
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: Pardon me, but would you please demonstrate how 1. your statements were completely devoid of any remotely insulting words, phrases or concepts; 2. where I have attacked you.
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, you are like a lot of other religious zealots... when everyone else doesn't see the OBVIOUS WISDOM of your arguments, you got rude and obnoxious, and then pull a "persecution complex" about it.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: You're right, my ego is codependant, but my id and superego are utterly independant....
phoenixavenged says, not u hunter u may use what weapons u have i am addressing u after all
beckett1779 says, phoenix is beginning to display a disturbingly familiar chat pattern.
beckett1779 says, he reminds me of a troll
beckett1779 says, Lisa?
phoenixavenged says, whioch is why i would have prefered a pm.. not this circus
LadyLisa99 says, beck?
beckett1779 says, Does Phoenix remind you of DrAbdual at all?
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: So if one is addrsesing another, one is permitted to twist their words, assert concepts being stated by the other that the other has never asserted, and everything else you've done thus far?
beckett1779 says, oh, the beaten man is trying to claim the moral high ground here.
LadyLisa99 says, Hmm... haven't heard any of his usual straw men... but maybe he's making an effort to change methods.
phoenixavenged says, no hunter i have not
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I'm sorry; PMs are for cowards. I prefer not only to do my things out in the open, but to do them where they're going to be saved and documented. Where they'll matter. Hence the offer for the board.
phoenixavenged says, i conceed
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: I'd go back and demonstrate that, but you haven't got the patience...
beckett1779 says, He concedes, yes.
phoenixavenged says, we shall do this again
phoenixavenged says, u r a worthy opponent
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: You're welcome to come to the board and engage any of those who are there. They won't be quite so...forgiving...of certain things as I've been, though.
phoenixavenged says, i will engage u when its only the 2 of us
phoenixavenged says, i cannot stand to be insulted for no reason
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, if you think that'll give you a better chance, don't bet on it. :)
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, phoenixavenged: As I said -- I don't do PMs. I don't engage in private debates. Not doing it in front of witnesses is for cowards and those who wish to twist the outcome later.
reinnresauq says, Phoenix, then stay out of chat rooms. People insult, people are rude. Most of us are from north America...we're bred to be rude
beckett1779 says, Phoenix, you are being insulted for very good reasons.
beckett1779 says, You invited those insults from your attacks upon Hunter.
phoenixavenged says, insulted for good reason what r those tell me beck
phoenixavenged says, i was alone u were many
reinnresauq says, So? Phoenix, when you throw a punch, don't get pissy when someone returns the favor
phoenixavenged says, i get pissy when someone else returns it rien
LadyLisa99 says, phoenix, okay. You can dish it out, but can't take it. At least your honest about that...
beckett1779 says, Phoen: the most salient of your abuses was to state you had evidence of "a theory" and then, when questioned about it, you ran to "look to your heart, there is it" as if Hunter has surgical scars containing invalid theories.
beckett1779 says, so, when you act stupid, expect to be treated as if you are stupid.
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says, in_t_h_e_light: You've gotta be smarter than the webpage.... Look for "Last Board"
phoenixavenged says, beck i do not see an insult to u in any of this
Hunter_the_CrazyChick says,
beckett1779: It's only okay to insult her if she insults you first. But I'll look at this as you using up all my 'free insult' tickets....
phoenixavenged says, hunter u have done wellthough
reinnresauq says, Phoenix, you're problem was that you refused to acknowledge that your points were refutted or pointed out for the logical fallacy they were
phoenixavenged says, bye for now
reinnresauq says, that's dishonest and that gets you flamed
beckett1779 says, you have done poorly, phoenix. Go do your homework first before trying lame theology in here again.
phoenixavenged says, yes perhapps
phoenixavenged says, yes i will
phoenixavenged says, beck
phoenixavenged says, but the next time please wait ur turn
reinnresauq says, ok Phoenix, I must say that you're taking this well...you...nevermind
beckett1779 says, there is no 'turn' in here, phoenix
phoenixavenged says, oh there will be
phoenixavenged says, lol
phoenixavenged leaves