UIN:116810065
Name: Roy Rimer
NickName: Shalafi
Primary Email: stringentstandards@yahoo.com
Zipcode: 80221
Gender: Male
Birth Date: Feb. 25 1980
Age: 21
ICQ History Log For:
116810065 Shalafi
Started on Fri Nov 30 06:34:27 2001
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| Shalafi | 11/30/01 3:57 AM | Hi, what school do you go to? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 3:57 AM |
I don't, currently. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 3:58 AM |
Why is that? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 3:58 AM |
I don't currently have the time. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 3:58 AM |
working too much? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 3:59 AM |
Something like that. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:00 AM |
that sucks |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:00 AM | Im going to metro right now-semester is almost over |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:00 AM | Ah. What for? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:00 AM | so what Heavy Metal do you like? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:00 AM | dont know yet-freshman |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:02 AM | Ah. Good way to go. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:36 AM | hmmm, thats cool |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:36 AM | Guess so. I need to make sure the computers are rendering whatever they're supposed to be rendering, instead of locking up over something.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:40 AM | what is it that you are rendering? art of some kind? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:41 AM | I'm not rendering anything; I don't touch those programmes [no talent whatsoever]. Something Gremlin's doing. Website stuff. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:42 AM | I see |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:49 AM | whew, arguing with some girl |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:49 AM | I thought about being a lawyer, but my voice is too messed up |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:50 AM | I could never do it. I stutter, or I talk to fast. Or not loud enough. Something's wrong. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:50 AM | That, and I just don't care enough. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:52 AM | yeah, i get that too |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:53 AM | Ugh. Then my hair touched my lower back and made me feel all crawly.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:55 AM | hah, how long is your hair? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:56 AM | It used to be down past my waist; I had to cut it to slightly below my shoulders recently [damned split ends MEANT it when they moved in]. I've finally gotten used to my hair just not existing, and it's somehow finding ways to torment me again.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 4:57 AM | well, how odd |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 4:58 AM | Oh good. My snake is awake.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:01 AM | how many reptiles do you have |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:02 AM | Curently, only two. A 3' cornsnake, and a Mangrove monitor. Oh wow. She yawned. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:03 AM | the snake? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:03 AM | Yeah. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:03 AM | I was watching animal planet today, and saw a snake yawn for the first time |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:03 AM | or yesterday, rather |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:03 AM | Neat, isn't it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:03 AM | its pretty impressive, seeing as how their jaws are not hinged |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:04 AM | I feel like eatin ice cream |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:04 AM | They are, technically. They can just sort of 'dislocate' them to eat. They're wonderful little animals. And I think this one's hungry. She's been acting like it. I need to step her up a size... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:06 AM | how do you do that? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:06 AM | Easy. Buy slightly bigger mice. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:06 AM | ew...i hear they scream |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:07 AM | No. They squeek. Rabbits scream.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:07 AM | a baby rabbit? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:08 AM | Probably. There's no point in feeding with baby rabbits, though; you can get large rats bigger than baby rabbits.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:08 AM | dont you think thats kinda stupid though? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:08 AM | What? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:08 AM | you have a pet snake, which doesnt really do that much thats constructive |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | and you have to kill lots of other creatures in order to potentiate the existence of the pointedly pointless existence |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | Um, no, I don't. It's no more stupid than owning a dog. Ooh, it drools and fetches. Neat.... I've got a bright orangey snake that sometimes comes out and sits on top of her hidespot and watches me type; I've got a Mangrove monitor who, though utterly unsociable, she seems to know her name, and seems to respond to my scent and voice, and takes food right out of my hand. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | shrugs...sorry...thats just how I think |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | I agree with the dog thing |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | I dont want a dog either |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | I'm sorry, I have no qualms about killing for food. But then, I don't pretend that I don't require that other things die to allow me to live. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | but you dont have to feed a dog rats |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:09 AM | :P |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | No. You feed it chicken, horse, cow, and pig, conveniently mixed with flour and corn and all sorts of other things, in pellet form. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | right, but your snake isnt really living in nature |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | those are leftovers that we do not use |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | So? My snake doesn't exist in nature. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | well, by conventional perspective, no |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | So it's alright to kill for you to live, but it's not alright for other natural predators to kill for /them/ to live. Okay. I get it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | it sits in a cage and kills stuff |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | it doesnt really balance an ecology |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | thats my point |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | your killing for it to sit there and do nothing |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | So? Neither do we. Neither do dogs. Neither do cats. Neither do horses, or cattle, or anything existing in society today. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | Cats can fend for themselves, really |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | second, I wouldnt own a dog |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | third, a horse eats oats...and it has a purpose |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | It doesn't sit there and do 'nothing'. It exists in its little territory much like it'd exist in the wild, except that it occasionally crawls down my shirt, or gets to socialise with a cat. And I get to watch it, study it, see how it moves, see how it reacts, because I've never owned one of these before. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:10 AM | and cattle...theyre just yummy |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | ok ok...so its for entertainment value |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | Horses have no purpose in today's society; cattle is a bit of hipocrisy on your part -- they're not even a part of nature in most cases. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | cattle is food |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | horses help for farming |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | they dont kill though |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | you dont have to feed them rats and baby rabbits |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | They don't, but killing the cattle is okay? Killing the cattle is okay, but killing a rodent isn't. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | thats my only complaint...something has to get hurt in order for your entertainment |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | killing the cattle is ok for US to eat |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | killing the rodents isnt ok for your entertainment |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | I'm not entertained by the feeding. I'm not really entertained by the snake itself. I'm entertained by the knowledge I gain. Perhaps I should just go live in ignorance, and not learn about something I wish to knowabout? And perhaps I shouldn't ever eat rabbit myself, again. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | thats a stretch |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | Food = entertainment. Taxcode. Food is a writeoff because it's an 'entertaining expense'. Can't kill cattle now. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:11 AM | Only to you. You're trying to argue a hypocritical PETA stance.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | what the hell are you talking about? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | Taxcode? what? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | how is it a writeoff? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | I dont give a damn about PETA...im just saying that killin critters by the many for you to have your PET is silly |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | What, you don't know about tax law? Sorry. Let me break this down for you: Eating dinner can be written off as a business client entertainment expense, according to the tax code. That makes food entertainment. Beef, being food, falls into that category, making it improper for you to kill cattle under your...illogic. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | well, You still pay for the dinner and you work for your food |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | just dont pay as many taxes on it |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | what do taxes have to do with the morality of this issue? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:12 AM | So you'd rather I not care for it properly? You'd rather I let it die of metabolic bone disease just because you're a little squeamish about a massbred white rodent that would've gotten eaten in the wild anyway. And what morality? What are morals? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:13 AM | Id rather you let it free |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:13 AM | Beyond that, I worked for the money to purchase both the snake and it's food. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:13 AM | let it fend for itself |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:13 AM | So it can die. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:13 AM | You would rather that I murder it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:13 AM | well, id rather you never owned it...how is that? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | You have no ability to command anyone's life other than your own; you have no right to wish that of anyone else. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | lol, thats crap |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | Is it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | I cant force you to do anything |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | but I can believe you shouldnt own a snake |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | you cant tell me what I can and cant |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:14 AM | wish |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:15 AM | And I don't really give a shit what you'd 'rather'. What you'd 'rather' is much like what the last freak who murdered one of my pets would've 'rathered'. Good for you; it's good to want something. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:15 AM | Wish all you want; believe all you want. Very common, very theistic qualities. Societally expected. That's cool; just don't force them on me. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:15 AM | well, I think im right |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:15 AM | Think you're 'right' all you want -- it makes no difference to reality. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | lol, actually owning a pet like that is more societally expected than my own ideas |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | and its not theistic either |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | You're wrong there, but, again, think what you want; it matters very little to reality. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | ethical is the correct word |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | oh really? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | Beliefs are theistic. Beliefs are faithbased, and not supported by logic or evidence. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | how many people in America would you say own dogs? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:16 AM | What are ethics? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:17 AM | thats not true at all |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:17 AM | my beliefs are based on a logical, ethical code |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:17 AM | A fairly large number. Dogs are common. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:17 AM | What are ethics. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:17 AM | well, I feel the same about dogs as I do abotu snakes |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:17 AM | i think its a big waste of time and money and life |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:18 AM | Good for you. Don't get one. But don't mandate that nobody else gets one either. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:18 AM | I dont think I mandated anything |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:18 AM | as far as ethics are concerned, there is far more to them than belief |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:18 AM | most of the time its logic rather than religion |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:18 AM | Look back over the history file. You probably wont' see it, but you were very insistant that I should 'set it free' because it was wrong for me to feed it properly, much like, according to your logic, it would be wrong to eat beef. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:19 AM | Define Ethics. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:19 AM | well, the ethical difference is that you have a pet snake for no reason |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:19 AM | you dont do anything with it |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:19 AM | Define ethics. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:19 AM | you claim that you learn so much for it that it warrants the death of all those animals |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:20 AM | wheras one cow can feed X number of people |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:20 AM | if I had a pet dinosaur that I was feeding the cows to, that would be unethical |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:20 AM | And you're still refusing to define the term that you're using to try to prove me wrong over something.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:20 AM | if you were going to EAT the snake, then it might be ethical |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:20 AM | So now you're going to try to twist it into a foodshortage issue? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:20 AM | DEFINE ETHICS. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:21 AM | you want me to define the word ethics? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:21 AM | Define the concept. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:21 AM | fine, a code of conduct |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:21 AM | Define code of conduct. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:21 AM | a set of rules that dictate how one should or should not behave |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:22 AM | A set of rules. So, the laws. And where in the laws does it say that I cannot own a snake, and feed it mice. I've not seen that yet. I've seen a lot of laws that say that if I do not care for an animal properly, I can get into a lot of trouble.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:22 AM | youre changing the subject |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:22 AM | ethics are internal |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | they arent written |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | thats why theyre mostly logic based |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | I'm not changing the subject at all. And if ethics are internal, then I have none. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | okey doke |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | I see no logical need for ethics if they make a person sound likey ou. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | now youre being insulting |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:23 AM | :( |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:24 AM | Oh no, not really. I'm just being honest. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:24 AM | I thought I was societally acceptable? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:24 AM | I never said that was a good thing. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:24 AM | if I was societally acceptable, then you would be overjoyed to hear my opinion |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:24 AM | oh, and I wonder what all the dog owners would say? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | maybe you just no logic, just wants and desires? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | I really don't care about the dog owners. And you're quite wrong about your presumption that I would be 'overjoyed' to hear /anyone's/ opinion. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | have |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | So now you're getting things backwards.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | oh man, you missed the point |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | see, you are society |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:25 AM | No. I'm not. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:26 AM | if I was societally accptible, you wouldnt imply that im obnoxious |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:26 AM | sure you are |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:26 AM | Incorrect. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:26 AM | just because you dont believe so doesnt make it true |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:26 AM | I know you dont WANT to believe it, but youre in a group, like it or not |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:26 AM | for example...snake owners |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:27 AM | now while you may not have LOTS in common with other people, you might have a few things |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:27 AM | I hold no beliefs. I'm also a 21 year old disabled American veteran. I trained in virology in the military, got hurt, and can no longer work. I study psychology, serial killers, herpetology, palaeontology, biology, and religion. I am not society. You shouldn't make such broad presumptions about the people you're talking to; it makes you lose more quickly. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:28 AM | you are a part of society |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:28 AM | Whether I have something in common with someone or not does not make me a 'member' of a group. I'm German. Does that make me a Nazi? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:28 AM | Okay. Fine. Prove it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:28 AM | sure it does |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:29 AM | the fact that you agree with some people makes you a part of a group |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:29 AM | and why are you resisting the idea so hard? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:29 AM | I'm not. You've just tried to enter yourself into a debate, and now I'm making you play by the rules. Don't like it much, do you. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:29 AM | what the hell are you talking about |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:29 AM | youre losing, not me |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | youre jumping subjects |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | im staying pretty consistent |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | and have made the most points on each topic |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | You were trying to prove your case to me on the reptile issue; you lost. Now you're trying to prove that I'm not only a member of 'society', but a Nazi. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | you just didnt agree |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | i followed logic |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | my intent was not to change your mind |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | That's taking a lot on faith, isn't it.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:30 AM | besides, you didnt want to change your mind...no one could have done that |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:31 AM | a nazi? when did I say that you were a nazi? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:31 AM | see, youd be a nazi if you had certain specific qualities |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:31 AM | If one makes an argument based in logic, with supporting evidence, it will change my mind. I'm fully logicbased. I don't care about 'wants' or 'desires'. I observe, Itake in evidence, and I accept that which can be proven. You've failed to prove your points to me. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:32 AM | I said "I'm german; does that make me a Nazi" You said "Sure". |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:32 AM | ok, well your behavior is inconsistent with logic |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:32 AM | I never even saw that |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:32 AM | I'm not entirely sure you understand logic. You've been arguing from beliefs and feelings this entire time. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:33 AM | how so? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:33 AM | I pointed out the fact that owning a snake is pointless |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:33 AM | Ethics. Morals. They're based on how you /feel/ about something. Your own personal opinions. Your own personal belief system. Your own personal 'religion', so to speak. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:33 AM | and not only is it pointless, its wrong...especially since you have to condemn other animals to die just to support your little hobby |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:34 AM | No, you didn't. You tried to argue that I should release it because it was 'unethical' for me to feed it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:34 AM | so basically you think killing is ok for fun |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:34 AM | well, im saying your participation in the killing is unethical |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:34 AM | Arguing from personal opinion, right there. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:34 AM | its not arguing from personal opinion...thats an axiom |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:35 AM | Incorrect. I'm not killing people for this snake. I'm killing rodents. I'm killing its normal foodsource. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:35 AM | YOURE killing, not the snake |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:35 AM | Moreover, I'm not the one killing it. The snake is. The snake does what comes natural. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:35 AM | Presumption. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:35 AM | all so you can have your fun |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:36 AM | I'm not killing a damned thing; the animal does the killing. And you're presuming I have any concept of what 'fun' is. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:36 AM | you bring the animal to the snake, and trap it so that the snake does not have to work for it |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:36 AM | im assuming nothing |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:36 AM | well, if its not entertaining or fun, then you do have the snake for no reason |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:36 AM | And you go through the drivethrough for a little slab of beef on a bun. You're not doing your work, are you.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:37 AM | I pay for it, and the money goes to the company that did it |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:37 AM | I have the snake for a reason. You just can't concieve that reason, because you're too busy feeling strongly about the poor little rodent. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:37 AM | I pay for the mouse; the money goes to the company that bred it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:38 AM | but its for a snake that you keep for entertainment |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:38 AM | Incorrect. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:38 AM | what is it for then? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:39 AM | whats the snake for? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:39 AM | you curing cancer? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:39 AM | The animal's a rescue. Someone released it; it almost got killed. I keep it because I don't want to see it die, or get mistreated. I keep it because I want it to live out it's little captivebred life in happiness. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:39 AM | The snake is for the snake, and nothing more. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:40 AM | well, id say your personal feelings are more prominent now |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:40 AM | I keep it because I rescue reptiles from environments where they're being kept improperly. Getting it yet? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:40 AM | Nope. You still have no concept of how I feel. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:40 AM | so you think youre doing something noble |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:41 AM | You're still under the impression that I keep them as an auxilliary television. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:41 AM | do you keep the animals until they die? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:41 AM | or do you try to return them to nature? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:41 AM | No, I'm not doing something 'noble'. That's silly. And yes, I keep them until they die. I don't have a license to resell them. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:41 AM | who said you have to resell them? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:41 AM | A captive reptile cannot be returned to nature; it will kill it. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:42 AM | I can't do anything else with them, other than keep them in as natural a habitat as possible until they die. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:42 AM | well, whats the point of keeping it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:42 AM | if its to keep it from dying, then arent you doint it because of personal feelings? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:43 AM | If I keep it, I'm not responsible for the neglect that led to it's death; I'm also not violationg federal laws. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:43 AM | Nope. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:43 AM | you dont have to accept the work of caring for it |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:44 AM | the fact that you do suggests that you want a non-guilty conscience |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:45 AM | at least according to your alleged motivation |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:45 AM | I'd hold no guilt either way; I've passed up animals before, because I didn't have the ability or desire to take them in at the time. I have room for a cornsnake; I can keep it; I have room for a mangrove monitor, I can keep it. I take care of it. I make sure it doesn't die. If it does, then, ohwell. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:45 AM | You haven't got enough information to base these presumptions on; why do you persist in making yourself look like a fool? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:46 AM | if not for personal gratification, then why do it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:46 AM | I dont think im looking like a fool, youre the one calling names...childish |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:46 AM | you think its gonna rattle me? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:46 AM | You must be a very shallow person, to think that people only do things for personal gratification.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:46 AM | so if youre doing it for the snakes themselves...wheres the logic in that? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:47 AM | Again, I'm not convinced you have any concept of logic; you keep arguing from feeling and opinion. I stated that I did it for the animal itself earlier; you weren't listening, were you? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:47 AM | you didnt make it clear |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:47 AM | and youre misusing two words |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:48 AM | presumption |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:48 AM | and concept |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:48 AM | "The snake is for the snake, nothing more." seems pretty clear to me. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:48 AM | well that is if you have no effect on the snake |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:48 AM | if the snake was for the snake it would be dead now, according to your claim as to what would happen if released |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:49 AM | the reason you take it in is because you dont want to let it die, if you had no feelings about it you would not take it in |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:49 AM | I dont see how you can just avoid that...youre trying to dance around this central idea that you are the one who makes the choice whether it lives or dies |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:50 AM | THAT is emotion based... |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:50 AM | Invalid. Incorrect. And circular. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:50 AM | how do you figure? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:50 AM | stating that something is incorrect does not make it so |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:51 AM | either state WHY or state nothing |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:51 AM | you take these animals in and pay to support them when you can...are you claiming to be indifferent? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:52 AM | and if you think youre indifferent then theres something wrong with YOU, not me |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:52 AM | how often do you wear black clothing? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:52 AM | Breaking that down to the essential meaning: Stating something does not make it so. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:52 AM | You can go right on ahead and put faith in the fact that I care about something; you can go right on ahead and think that I operate on emotions like you do; you can go right on ahead and make these arrogant little assumptions that you're making. There's no point in even attempting to refute them; I'm not even required to until you incontrovertably prove them. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:52 AM | well im going by another axiom |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:52 AM | Changing the subject now, are you? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:53 AM | humans are supposed to be emotional |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:53 AM | Stereotypes will get you nowhere. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:53 AM | it was just a feeling I had |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:53 AM | earlier you claimed to not be in a group |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:53 AM | but I think you are |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:53 AM | maybe im wrong, but I doubt it |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | Oh really. Another 'feeling'? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | yep, a hunch |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | one of the benefits of using both mind and emotion |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | Well, good for you. Tell me about these 'feelings'. STereotype me. Please. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | no, thats rude |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | I just asked that you answer a question |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | You've already done it, so go ahead. You've already been quite rude. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:54 AM | you refused, so I cant base it on anything |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:55 AM | how have i been rude?! |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:55 AM | youre the one who called all kinds of names |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:55 AM | and besides, i thought you didnt BELIEVE in things like rudeness |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:56 AM | Rudeness exists; it's evidenced. Nice try. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:56 AM | rudeness only exists if you think it does |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:56 AM | depends on who you ask |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:57 AM | your opinion/belief of what rudeness is prevails in this case |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:57 AM | You seem to think it does, and you seem to be tryng to achieve it, but accuse me of it. Now, go on and stereotype me. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:57 AM | since you said I am rude |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:57 AM | I told you, I dont intend to stereotype you...other than to say that youre beligerant |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:57 AM | You said that it would be rude to stereotype me, after you did. So you've labeled yourself. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:57 AM | I did not stereotype you |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | I asked if you wore black clothing, you never answered |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | Whatever you say, since what you say makes it so, according to you. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | so I cant stereotype you |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | well, you called me a fool |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | thats beligerant |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | Of course I do. How can one avoid not wearing something that contains black. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:58 AM | dont be a smart as |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:59 AM | I answered. You shouldn't ask if you don't want an honest answer. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:59 AM | somethng solid black |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:59 AM | dont meddle with semantics |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:59 AM | its a waste of time |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 5:59 AM | you know exactly what Im talking about |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 5:59 AM | Solid black? As often as I wear camouflage, or regular denim-colour. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:00 AM | Do I? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:00 AM | ok, something more simple for the word magician |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:00 AM | color, not color...you live in the US |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:00 AM | ugh, not colour |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:00 AM | Telling me what I can and cannot do again? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:00 AM | ok, how many PIERCINGS do you have |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | None. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | what you SHOULD not do |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | impressive |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | how tall are you |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | and yes, thats a fucking opinion |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | Should not? By whose standards? Yours? Why should I live by YOUR standards? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | HAH, because I said so |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | How tall am I? What is the relevance? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | ask your snake if it thinks it should ive in an aquarium |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:01 AM | You like to be in control, don't you? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:02 AM | who doesnt |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:02 AM | Snakes don't speak; they also don't hear. They sense vibrations, not sound as we know it. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:02 AM | People who don't have inferiority issues. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:03 AM | thats an assumption too |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:03 AM | anyhow, your keeping the snake in a cage is biased |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:03 AM | Changing subjects again? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:03 AM | nope, old subject revived |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:04 AM | and everyone has inferiority issues, except for those that believe that they are superior |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:04 AM | It seems to me the old subject was ended, and you'd moved on to a new one. Now, why are you jumping back to an old one. Hate to see a loss? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:04 AM | More assumptions from you. Yay. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:04 AM | its not a lost |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:04 AM | I think I proved my poitn |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:04 AM | point |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:05 AM | Think what you will. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:05 AM | well, whats the point in keeping the snake? if you cannot answer why you do something, then you are doing it for no reason |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:05 AM | Now you're getting it.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:05 AM | Ill eat the fuckin thing and give its existence some meaning, how does that sound? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | see, more insults and condecension |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | That sounds like you're making a threat. Theft and damage of property. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | im asking you to give it to me |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | Personal interpretation.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | well, what would you call it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | its personal interpretation, but its accurate |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | There was no asking involved in that last statement. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:06 AM | accuracy is important |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:07 AM | I said Ill eat it...it was a proposal |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:07 AM | Accurate only to you. Your own interpretation is allthat matters to you, and it only matters to you. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:07 AM | ok, what did you mean when you said "now youre getting it"? what was your intent with that statement? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:08 AM | The nature of your statement was a threat. If you really wish to eat a snake, go purchase your own. And I really advise against it, because they're not terribly edible. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:08 AM | and dont lie and say it was just an observation |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:08 AM | It was. You said 'you're doing it for no reason'. And that's precisely correct. I have no reason; I dont' see a need for it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:09 AM | then why say it at all? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:09 AM | So I can watch you misinterpret something else.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:10 AM | just to waste keystrokes, eh? wow...youre just into wasting time and energy, arentcha? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:10 AM | HAH! so it was for something |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:10 AM | you did lie |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:10 AM | It's hardly a waste of time and energy; I'm not even really paying attention to you. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:10 AM | youre typing an awful lot for that |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:11 AM | eh, youre full of crap |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:11 AM | so much so that your eyes are brown |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:11 AM | No. I didn't. You're trying to transpose the 'no reason' as being my words; they were yours. I said 'now you're getting it' because I knew you'd misinterpret it, and I knew it would lead to this. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:11 AM | you said you see no reason for a reason |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:11 AM | Grey, actually. And it's funny, how you, who is so against insults, are resorting to hurling them now.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:12 AM | unter: It was. You said 'you're doing it for no reason'. And that's precisely correct. I have no reason; I dont' see a need for it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:12 AM | it wasnt an insult, it was an observation |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:12 AM | I see no reason to have a 'reason' or 'desire' to keep the snake. I just do it. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | Then you cannot accuse me of hurling insults, because I've only been making observations. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | but you do it |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | you never said they were observations before |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | you said I was a fool, thats not an observation |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | thats an insult, and an opinion |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | You never asked; you just went ahead and named them for yourself. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:13 AM | I didnt have to ask |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | No; it's as much of an observation as 'you're so full of shit your eyes are brown' is. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | you do a lot of things for no reason, dont you? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | I said so much so that your eyes are brown |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | I'd have to /care/ to have a reason, now wouldn't I? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | well, you dont care? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | is that what youre getting at? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | You're quick.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:14 AM | hmmm, thats grim |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:15 AM | In your opinion. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:15 AM | an uncaring female human cripple with a lizard and a snake |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:15 AM | and a friend named Gremlin |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:15 AM | And you take offense at it all. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:15 AM | how unusual |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:15 AM | actually its kinda funny now |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:16 AM | I'm glad you can laugh at yourself. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:16 AM | me too |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:16 AM | but currently im not laughin at myself |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:16 AM | Of course you're not. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:16 AM | what is the nature of your handicap, at any rate? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:16 AM | You're laughing at your own assumption, and looking like an utter idiot. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:17 AM | to you maybe... |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:17 AM | You have no idea.... And my personal details aren't any of your business. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:17 AM | you dont care though, so the fact that I look like an idiot to you is meaningless |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:17 AM | very well |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:17 AM | I dont' care; others might. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:17 AM | who cares what the uncaring girl's friends think of her opinion? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:18 AM | not I, for certain |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:18 AM | You've got this mental image of someone obese and in a wheelchair. And I'm finding it quite funny. |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:18 AM | Oh, but you do. Or you wouldn't be fretting over it. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:18 AM | no, the snake and lizard thing was what was funny |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:18 AM | I was thinking more like some nerve damage or maybe optical |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:19 AM | You'd be wrong. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:19 AM | since you said you got it when you were working with reptiles |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:19 AM | well, I can only guess |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:19 AM | Quote that statement. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:19 AM | guessing is natural |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:20 AM | and having an imagination isnt so bad...try it sometime |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:20 AM | And I suppose saying that someone stated something they never stated is a part of having an imagination? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:20 AM | sure |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:20 AM | I had to extrapolate |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:21 AM | if I did see you in a wheelchair...heh...that IS a funny image |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:21 AM | not obsese though |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:21 AM | thats not funny |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:21 AM | thats icky |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:21 AM | and if you are obese then I apologize |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:21 AM | So you completely disregarded the "Disabled American Veteran" part. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | well you said you were working with something at the time |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | I cant remember exactly what you said |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | Viri. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | yeah, thats it |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | Virology....thats just perfect |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | more meddling |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | Viri are not reptiles. They're not even cells.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:22 AM | well I had forgotten and closed the window at least once |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:23 AM | 'meddling'. So study = meddling to you? Is going to the doctor for antibiotics 'meddling'? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:23 AM | it can be |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:23 AM | might be better off if viruses wiped a lot of us out |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:23 AM | but we will never know, will we? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:23 AM | :D unless you live in africa, of course |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:23 AM | You're far less aware of the likelihood than I am.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:24 AM | well, probably |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:24 AM | what IS the likelihood? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:24 AM | People in Africa are far less likely to be wiped out than people in America. Outbreaks there are very, very easily contained. They're naturally contained. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:24 AM | well thats because people are disbursed |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:25 AM | isnt it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:25 AM | certain countries are being decimated by viruses |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:25 AM | besides, I didnt say all people |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:25 AM | I said SOME people |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:25 AM | population control |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:25 AM | It's far more likely than a nuclear attack. I'm not real bick on statistics and probability though, so I can't really sit here and calculate the odds of just any virus. Don't worry about it though; flu season is coming around again, and I doubt they got the right three in the vacciene this year, either.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:26 AM | right three what? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:26 AM | Right three mutations. Right three strains. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:26 AM | thats what I thought |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:27 AM | oh well, thats a good thing if you ask me |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:27 AM | sides, the ones who dont die will end up stronger |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:27 AM | I really don't care either way, in all honesty. It's likely that I won't get it,and, if I do, I'll be down for a couple of days. The only people who have to be afraid are the really young, the really old, or the otherwise 'infirm'. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:28 AM | you sure about that? you sound pretty infirm to me |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:28 AM | And the shot sometimes kills people. It helps it along, I guess. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:28 AM | Im just kidding about you sounding infirm, by the way |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:28 AM | Infer what you like. My typing does not seem to display infirmity. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:29 AM | if anything, you are TOO firm |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:29 AM | lol |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:29 AM | fuckin brick wall |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:29 AM | So? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:29 AM | hmmmm, brick isnt hard enough |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:30 AM | youre an alloy.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:30 AM | some sort of carbon steel...tool steel probably |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:30 AM | are you frowning? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:30 AM | No. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:30 AM | you sound like it |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:31 AM | or "read" like it |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:31 AM | I sound like it? |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:31 AM | haha, I knew you would say that |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:31 AM | That's really quite funny, because I hadn't sent you anything to 'read'.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:31 AM | yeah yeah yeah |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:32 AM | all of your typing, while it is not exciting...its interesting to READ |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:32 AM | its complex enough to keep my attention |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:32 AM | Okay. I'm leaving now. I've got an appointment I have to be awake for. |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:32 AM | ok, well you have a good night |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:32 AM | do you mind if I add you to my contact list? |
| Hunter | 11/30/01 6:33 AM | Doesn't matter either way.... |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:33 AM | everything matters |
| Shalafi | 11/30/01 6:33 AM |
Ill see ya later...take care of yourself |