Posted by Utahraptor on 01 July 1999 at 08:28:32:

In Reply to: Bubble Stuff? posted by Gremlin on 30 June 1999 at 11:40:53:

: : Yet no one supporting GId had anythign justified or logicla either. JUstt heis magic book written by a human being (known to lie), and 2000 years out of date. Actually, I've heard many logical reasonings that there is no God. Whetehr this was said by an aathiest ro not "IF there was a God, the world wouldn't be in such bad shape" it is still logical.

: The existence of gods has nothing to do with the state of the world. I'm a god over everything I wrote, and the environments in my books are usually less than paradise.

But the current belief about GOd( by the major religions) is that He is all good. Hence where the expression "If God is so good, why does He allow evil thigns to happen?" comes from. GOd is supposed to directly control the world, and our lives. SO that's why people pray to end this war, make betetr this misery. And the whole basis of the Flood, 10 Commandmnets, the sending of Jesus, punishing the wicked with eternity in Hell, etc. Becasue God is supposed to keep the place in working order. Or, we could all be characters in God's book. And He could eb writing like you do.

: : I liked the one about how universe pop into and out fo existance through anturla alws of science (whichever) and last emre seconds, while the occupants experience billions fo years. Course, that theory provides for how GOd cna be all powerful and all knowing (which He ain't.) Due tot he bubble stuff, anyoen existign otuside the bubble will simultaneously live int eh past present and future. WHich expalisn God's super brain. PLus, if God leave shis bubble,a nd either ahs the power to, ro gaisnt he power to directly efefct our bubble universe, that explains how He works. Plus, I think He's in a space suit fos oemsorts, cause I doubt H cna survive int eh palce where Universes exist.

: What in hell is Bubble Stuff? And why would a deity need a spacesuit?

Bubble stuff is the bubble universes,a nd hwo each exists for a short time, and are constantly being created and destroyed. And a diety who relaly isn't all powerfulw oudl need one. Remember, God is supposedly all powerful to us. BUt whre he comes form, he is nothing. For our Universe, a diety cna control us. He has the power. But outide our universe, His powers are useless. Nwo, God cna jolly well exist outside our universe,a nd nto need any protection. Sicne no oen who could tlak to Him ever dared to ask about Hsi powers and limitations, we can't relaly say for sure. IN relaity, could not any ruling diety, wiht all the powers here, be run of the mill in their own universe? Could not others be even mroe powerful? Might they have dieties ruling over them?
: : Nohting to shwo it ain't. But I belive it will eventually end. Can't prove it, but I can belive stuff not proven. Opinions and all that.

: I try not to believe in opinions. That's how people start to care what other people think.

: : Perhaps God can only be eternal in an eternal universe. No, that defeats the purpose of his inate ramblings. Well, unelss you count Heavena s it's own Universe, then it cna be Eternal, and suppsoedly is.

: Heaven isn't a universe. It's a place decribed in a very boring novel. And it's not eternal: it's only existed since the bible was written.

Unless the bible is right on that part. In which case, it has existed before people, and the book. Plus, accoridng to the Bible, God isn't even planning onstaying in Heaven forever. Earth si to be His final ruling place. And that is most illogical.

: : NO believer cna prove how God has the power to make a Universe. I say He was formed fromt he same stuff during the Big Bang. IF the Universe is a body, GOd's the brain. I also liek a paradimensional beign creatign thsi Unvierse, ort aking it voer, myself.

: That fails to make any sense at all. There's no evidence to suggest that the universe was ever made at all. And none to indicate that gods have ever existed.

But the point is not does this stuff really exist, but how it could. Some poeple insist God always was. He had no beginning. Which makes the least sense of all.

: : It could be. Though in reality, are not beliefs or lack thereof base don choice or brianwashing? Do you not choose to not belive in GOd, or the posisblity, or whatever? Do you not choose to just acceot the spoon feeding fo God and what you're to mindlessly belive? I doubt one is preprogramme dfor oen over than the other. Seems you decide, or decide not to decide.

: Wrong. It's not really a concious decision to lack belief in the absurd. There are lots o things I don't believe in. But I couldn't make a list of them. The concept of gods is one I happened across when a bunch of idiots started telling me about the whole idea, and I asked them what they were talking about, and they didn't have any logical answers. It's not that disbelieving is cool, it's that trying to believe in a god is like trying to believe that the planet is flat.

And there are fools who still believe the Earth is flat. One women supposedly found the edge fot he Earth, and took a picture ofit. She left teh camera with a ntoe saying "It's over. We were right," yet mysteriosuly disappeared. BUt no photos were ever developed, becasue the film was "Accidentally" expose dto sunlight (when someone exposed it on purpose). And this was in the 1950's or 60's.

: : Soems ay cavemen worshipped a diety. Course, even barring the current beliefs in God, people believe that throwing a virgin into a volcanoe wills top it from erupting (plugs it up.) Yet,s trangely enough, the volcanoe knows the diff between a virgina nd non, and does not like non virgins. So, doe soen really wnat to say huamns always belive in a diety? NOt a good defense, really. These peopel thought the eclipse was the sun being eaten by a monster.

: Um...tossing two hundred pounds of wet meat into a volcano isn't likely to 'plug it up'. It would be like dropping a BB into the barrel of a nine millimetre pistol to keep the bullet from coming out.

Right. Hence why base a belief in GOd on the fatc that everybody suppsoeldy did throughout hsitroy, when these very same God belivers think a young women can stop a volcanoe from erupting, and only if she's a virgin (Like it'll know.)
: : OK, so a minority is wrong without proof? That's most illogical. esecially sicne the amjorty neve reven considers what they're told.

: I thought that one was funny as hell. There was a time, not long ago, when the xians were the minority. How quickly they forget. Thinking about it, xians are still the minority...

:
: : I like the idea of all creation being done by a Potato.

: News to me...

I took that one from the animatronic show Dinosaurs. In it, thta was their God. And to denounce the Potato or the Book fot eh Potato got you burnt at the stake (so, not believing makes you a witch, too.) And of course, when the dinos about to be burned were save dbyt he evry same Potato who ordered non bleievers burnt, that ism fell flat. And new ideas came about. Some even mroe stoopid than that. But it's fun to say a Potato created us.

: : Nor do you any that He ever did. IT's all heresay and circumstantial.

: Why do you keep capitalising 'he'?
That's way we're suppose dto spell He when used to represent God. I think He's so special, He gets a better he. Or he is used as a name, as opposed to a regular he. Rememebr, this was doen by people who tlak to burning bushes. And who thinka young lady wills top an errupting volcanoe, by appeasing the volcanoe god (so, a volcanoe god doesn't want a women with experience. They need purity?)

: : I think that menas thye knwo whether to belive or not. They choose not to. Whether they are right si the question. NOt whether they should belive.

: The question is: 'does it matter whether we believe". What, are theists on commission or something?

For me, as long as you don't force your beliefs on another, or ridicule their beliefs, who cares. Believe what you like, and nobody gets hurt. We're all probably wrong anyway. Besides, what kinda God lets so many religions thta contradict each other pop up. Christians say Jesus was all that. Jews say he was a radical. Both can't be right.

: : OK, some have said Heaven's on a diff time than we are, so maybe GOd ahs been away for only 1 day His time, 2000+ years ours.

: That math is impossible. If the universe is only six thousand years old [yet two hundred billion lightyears across] then it can't be two thousand years. Best case, one day would be two thousand years, and the universe would be fourteen thousand years old.

Well, the importnat thing si are we sure God's on our time? And GOd supposedly said the Earth si 6000 yeras old or so. SO, based on his tiem, the universe can be older. This reminds me of a Family Circus cartoon. Bill Keane is talking to God, and asks how long a billion years is to Him. God says "A second." And Bill asks, "How much is a billion dolalrs to you?" And God says "A Penny." so Bill asks" Can you give me a Penny?" "And God goes "In a second." SO, differenc ein tiem cna be a reason fro the sudden silent treatment God is giving us. IT could be a short while to Him, but millenia to us. Regardless of proper ratios.

: : And this anti tolertaion is mroe reason for Eternal Hell for you guys, you know.

: You might as well threaten to send them to Narnia.

Hey, Naria's cool. It's protecte from Evil (As long as the tree protecting it stands), and animals talk. Plus, in the end, Narnia is destroyed. And everybody good move sinto Aslan's Country. So, amybe threatenign to send him to narnia is good. A nice blank void. (And this si interetsing. The author is a big Christian,a nd Aslan is supposed to be God. Yet Aslan has admitted to the Magician beign the high and mighty. So why is this devoted Christian saying God isn't the highest being?)

: : : >Surely this proves to you atheists that there are something significant
: : : >and extraordinary about these spiritual leaders.??

: : BUt thta doens't prove there's a god. Just that many do belive in Him.

: Yup. Why can't more people figure that out...

Because most people fear thinking for themselves. Perosanlly, I fidn a lot of weird contradicitons in religions. I mean God frees the Jews from slavery, makes thme walk across a burnign desert for 40 years, however, He protects them from the heat, and has food appear ont he groudn for them eahc day. And we're all suppose dto thnak HIm for doing it. I say, 40 years? And food off the ground? The dude makes the whole universe, all life in it, but can't cretae paltes for food. Right. Plus, we're suppsoed to belive that eahc of the aforementioend was more than enough. God basically just ahd to free us, and we'd be eternally thankful. Yet I say, He msot certainyl shoudl do it all, and more. And circumscisions. That's absed off of a real sickness. God does this ncie thigns for Jews,a nd says to repay me, cut off part of your penises. OK, thta's sick. I don't care how much mroe helatheir it si to eb circumscised, there's soemhtign wrong with a god who says, repay me by chopping up your privates. And this is the same being who wanted what's hsi face to prove his faith by killing his son. It wa sjsuta loyalty test. NOW, I defy anyoen tot ell em hwo God can't be sick? Yet, to question Him is wrong. I'lls top questioning when I get 1) answers 2) a straight story from everybody. HEre's nonsense. God kicks Satan out fo Heaven. Satan falls for a long time,a nd crash lands in Hell, supposedly knocke dout for 9 days. Satan is an angel. YEt now he's a big old monsterous dude,w ith bat wings, horns, tial. everyhtign an angel doesn't have. And no halo. And cloven feet. So either this flal did it, or I'm to belive that Staan chose a new form for hsi new living quarters. That doesn't even make any sense. Eithe rhe's an angel, ro soemthign else. I don't buy a morphing angel.

: It's not that atheists are more convincing. It's that the stories being told by theists make no logical sense. All an atheist has to say about it is 'I don't buy it'. We don't try to sell anyone on an alternate religion; we just don't want to hear about theirs.

I just wnat a straight anser. NOne fi this trust Him, don't question Him. I will form my own beliefs bse don more logicla stuff (seeing stuff thta cna be considered divine inetrvention, etc.) BUt I will laugh and scoff at anyone who can't make any sense. Did you know that Jesus is God's Son, God in Huamn form, and existed as God and Jesus (Not including the firts example) at the same time. And there was a debate ages ago about whteher Jesus got his power from GOd, or ahd his own, and whether he was poor or not. Youa sk me, get your story straight before forming a religion. What we ahve are many variations of the main one. And this si why Id ecided to create my own belifes about Life, The Universe,a nd everyhting. Sure I believe in God, but at leats I keep my stuff straight. And don't blindly accept an all knwoing, all powerful God on blind faith. I've seen too much to knwo that God cna't be all knwoing,a nd all powerful.

: Although, if you don't believe in Santa, you'll only get coal this year >:)
Don't get me started. Santa should eb executed. don't sue soemoen for saying they're Santa. Sue em for the environmental disaters he causes, the religous discriminations, defying the laws of scince and nature, and if you agree with me, enslavign the Elves (not proven, so it's my belief. BUt I wouldn't putit past him.) And rememebr Rudolph the Red Nsoed Reindeer's TV specila on hsi life story? Even the ever so great santa didn't like him, because of hsi lightbulbed nose. And theyc all him Saint Nick. Right.

Well, if thiests talk liek thsi, no wonder they cna't convetr atheists. I mean, sheesh.
And what's this Pascal Law? The stoopidier it is, the more people will buy into it? These people make em ashamed to belive in God like they do. Who wnats to admitt they belive in the same being as these idiots do?
Persoanlly, all I ask is an atheists have a believbale reason nto to belive in God. JUst because evrybody does, and I wanna be diff, doesn't count. They do not have to prove God doesn't exist, just whyt hey don't belive He does. I have yet to see any concrete evidence to support either view. we cna neither prove nor disporve God's existence. And if it could be proven, I don't think many atheists would exist.

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